We are all lovers, devotees of a higher power, thousands of lovers, but the Beloved is one for all. He whom we desire is the beloved of the whole world and is the one God for all men, not specifically for Muslims only, or for Hindus only, or for Christians only.
          Sant Kirpal Singh

How I met my Master

This talk was given by Sant Kirpal Singh on January 24, 1964, Washington, D.C.

Talk available as mp3 at audio.sant-kirpal-singh.org


Hazur Baba Sawan Singh with Sant Kirpal Singh

As it appears from my form, I was born in a Sikh family. Man is social: he must have some social body to live in; so he is born in one family or the other. And he has to remain in some social body.

I had an inkling from my childhood about God. Each man has his particular background. When reading the Sikh scriptures, I used not to ruminate over them, but read them carefully. I used to open the Sikh scriptures and read only one hymn – not many pages – and put it in writing. I kept it before me all throughout the day, thinking that "this is the lesson given to me." The more you read something again and again, the more you will find in it. Generally, when we read scriptures, we ruminate over them: we read two or four or ten pages and go on reading; and we do not know what we have read, even after we have left the scriptures. We forget. But I didn't do that.

The result was this: All scriptures tell us that there is a God. That very conviction I had in my innate self, I would say. I was never in doubt about God. But the scriptures also referred to the need of the company of someone who knows God, you may call him a Guru or a Master or a Teacher or anything: "If you want to see God, meet someone who sees God" that's common sense – and to whom you can devote your whole self – mind, body and soul. The more you can surrender, the greater the achievement you can have. The first thing is to meet someone who knows God and who sees God, as I see you and you see me." The more I went into the Sikh scriptures, and into the scriptures of other religions as well, the more truth of this I found.

When you go to a place of pilgrimage, it is better to take along someone who has already made a pilgrimage there. Then it becomes easier, does it not? How confidently we can go! Suppose you have to leave your country and go to some foreign land. What would you do? Generally you would open directories to find out what are the means to reach there, how to go, where to stay and where not to stay. Suppose you have to go to a place where you do not know the language. What should you do? How much money will be required? What things do we require to take along with us? All these things you consider. This information is given in the directories, of course; but they don't speak. By going through them, you might find one thing here, another thing on the tenth page, and another on the fiftieth page. If, while searching through the directories, someone comes up to you and says, "Look here, do you want to go to that place? Here's a man who has come from that place," what would you do? You would close the directories and run to him.

Why? It is but natural. Scriptures tell us: "He who knows God – sit at His feet." Read through them, and you'll find the same thing. But many things are not clear: the books have not been written in a graduated way: there are some references here, some there; some are given in the form of parables; some are direct; but you don't find the whole thing explained in one place. The way I am now explaining it to you is not given there.

So, naturally, you will run to that man. When you go to him, he says, "Oh, yes, I've been to that place. Do you want to go there?" "Yes." And if you put a question to him, he will say, "Oh, yes, you can go to such and such a place; you can stop there; and on the way, you can have food."

You are convinced that that man has seen it. But he's not going back. And next week you hear that this very same man is going back to the very place from which he has come and to which you want to go. You ask him, "Will you take me along with you?" "Yes, most gladly." How confident you feel, naturally! You have nothing to worry about where to go or where you will stop, because that man knows – he has been to that place.

Similarly, in this quest, I read the scriptures, first of all, in the family in which I was born. The Sikh scriptures are a very big treasure house: they comprise about fourteen hundred pages, big size. And the beauty of them is that you have the findings of so many God-men together. The oldest scriptures of the world are called the Vedas. The Vedas include the sayings and findings of many rishis, not one. You'll find that later scriptures give only as much as the one particular Master, who came at the time, said – although all the teachings are parallel; I'm just describing the beauty of these. So, the latest scriptures, those of the Sikhs, written four hundred years ago, contain as many Masters' findings as could possibly have been collected at the time.

It was Guru Arjan who collected all the sayings of the four Masters before him. He was the fifth one in the reign of Guru Nanak; and Guru Nanak was a contemporary of Kabir for forty-eight years. He collected all these sayings and added his own: about half he collected, and half he added of his own. He was a very good, God-inspired person. He said, "I and my Father are One. The Father and Son have been dyed in the same color. They have formed an alliance." Such-like things he has in the scriptures. Then he left some pages blank and closed the book with them. He said, "This is the reservoir of Divinity: the more you go into it, the more you will find priceless jewels," and left some pages blank. People asked him, "Why are you doing that?" He said, "Here the sayings of the ninth Guru, who will follow me, are to be recorded." And there is one couplet of the tenth Guru there, too – one couplet. So, these were the latest scriptures. The oldest scriptures of the world and the latest contain sayings of so many Masters together. That's a banquet hall of spirituality.

Then naturally I was led to other scriptures. I was reading in a missionary school, so I was in touch with the missionary teachings. But what they said, I did not follow. The teachings appeared to be very clear to me; but, perhaps, to those who were preaching them, they were not so clear. They said, "You must be born in Christ." I said, "How can a man be born in a man?" Common sense! "God is Light." And they said, "Well, intellectually: God gives us the intellect to understand Him."

Then I read other scriptures – Mohammedan, Hindu – the most I could lay hands on. All said the same thing: "There is a God. If you want to see God, sit at the feet of someone who has seen God; who not only has seen God, but is competent to make us see God." You'll find that Christ said, "The Son knows the Father and others to whom the Son reveals." The Sonship continues. All Mohammedan literature and scriptures tell us the same thing: "You must find some means to reach God." Hindu scriptures are full of them as well. In every scripture you will find these sayings.

Naturally, when I looked around, there were so many Masters. To whom should I go? We were three brothers. Two of us helped each other: "If you find any Godman, tell me; if I find one, I will tell you." We were searching, you see.

So many men were having meetings of this kind. Once, it so happened, that my brother wrote me, "Here's a very great man; a very great Master has come. Will you come?" I went there. I told him, "I have intoxication that continues day and night; but sometimes, after three, four or five months, it breaks for a day or two. And I am very much puzzled. Can you help me in that?"

What did he say? "You'll have to lay down everything – your body, mind and soul – to me. Only then I can, I will, give it to you."

I thought, "The man is after my body and possessions; my intellect and everything is to be blindfolded." I paid him homage and returned. Well, you see, surrender comes only when you see some competence. Devotion and love – one who loves – is something else. When you surrender, you have control of the one to whom you surrender: he has to take care of you.

So many came and passed by. I used to see one who was very God-intoxicated; but he lived in a way that nobody dared come to him. We used to meet all our friends, in the evening, outside. We were talking: "Is there any Godman we can find?"

Then I told them, "I've seen one man. He's God-intoxicated, but he's a hard nut to crack." You'll find that some are God-intoxicated, but they won't let you go near them. You people have the privilege to talk, question, cross-question and criticize; this man would not suffer that. So I told them about that man. Our Master [Baba Sawan Singh] also used to refer to him; he also met him; his name was Baba Kahan. He lived in a naked state; there was a fire burning, amid filth; when there was heat, he was just fanning the other way.

I told them, "He's got some intoxication." Anyone that went to him, he would call them names. If they didn't leave, then he would beat them. But there was something there: he would call them names, and people would still remain there. Sometimes they would get a beating, too. But for whatever purpose they went, that purpose was served: they had it.

I was reading in those days in school. I also used to go to him. He was just sitting on a platform here, in a half-naked way; I used to stand over there, watching people whom he called names going away. I stayed on until everybody left. Then he called me: "Well, Sardar, what do you want?"

I went to him: "I came only to see you."

"All right, go."

That's how I had that connection with him. So I told one man, "He has something; but he's a very hard nut to crack, mind that."

Nobody suffers, you see. This is a very valuable thing. Who is going to give it to you?

"Well, all right; what shall I do?" he asked.

"Go and sit at night with him. Even if he says anything or calls you names, don't mind it."

He went that night; he stayed there. After eleven or twelve o'clock, Baba Kahan called him names and also beat him with his fist. He ran away. The next day, our party met together again, and I asked him, "How did you find him?"

"Oh, he called me names and beat me with his fist."

"Well, don't mind," I said. "He's got something. Don't mind – go!"

So the next night, he again went there. Instead of only beating him, Baba Kahan took that burning wood and struck him. Then he left. The next day – he did not strike him with the wood, but put him underneath a well. Again he went away. On the third day, I asked him what happened.

"Oh, yes," I said, "but don't mind, he's got something. He's guarding that wealth; he'll not let you have it. Don't mind; let him kill you; don't mind."

The night of the third day, he also went there. He did as I described to you: he made a little wound with the burning wood. He did not leave him. In the middle of the night, after one o'clock, Baba Kahan asked, "What do you want, after all? Why are you coming to me?"

He said, "Well, Master, give me something."

Then he made him to hear the Sound Current. Some people have it; they keep it very close-fisted. They don't give it out.

So I went on like that. I used to pray: "O God, I'm convinced that without one who knows You, nobody can reach You." It is a practical matter of self-analysis. God cannot be known by the outgoing faculties, by the vital airs or by the intellect. It is a matter of seeing: whoever sees can make you see. "I know there's a need – definitely: all scriptures say so. I'm quite convinced, but where am I to go? Suppose I go to somebody who has not met You – what will be my fate?" I used to pray like that. "If You could reveal Yourself to the old saints" – sometimes there are stories like that – "why can't You do it in my case? I'm convinced; I've great regard for that need; but there are so many Masters – whom shall I select?"

With this, my Master [Baba Sawan Singh] began to appear to me when I sat in meditation or when I was doing something. I thought perhaps it was Guru Nanak. He used to talk to me. In those days there was the first Great War, and my brother was on the Indian front along the Persian side. I used to traverse along with him and went to those places, here, there and everywhere.

I was very fond of rivers, ponds, water. Even in my young life, I used to go and sit by the waterside, or some river, the whole night through, in a calm and quiet place. The running water helps a little to concentrate. So this went on for some time.

In the meantime, I was first at Peshawar, and then I was transferred to Nowshera station: a river runs by there. I used to sit by that riverside for hours. Then I came to Jhelum side. That is also by the riverside, and I sat there for hours on end. I was very fond of swimming, too. (Just enter the river: if you're not afraid, nothing will happen; it's only fear that kills you. If you simply shake your foot a little or move your hands a little, you won't drown.)

In the meantime, I was transferred to Lahore: that was also by the riverside. I passed my days there. There was also the river Beas: "Let me have a look at that!" One Sunday morning I left by train and detrained at Beas station. There was an old man there; he was a station master of the station. I asked him which side the river flows. He was a devotee of the Master: "Do you want to see the Master?"

"Does a Master live there?"



"On the riverside."

I told him, "I have two things now. I'll enjoy the river scenery and also see the Master at the same time." Then he directed me there.

Master was sitting upstairs; he was taking his meal inside. I went out and sat outside. After half an hour or so, he came out. I was wonderstruck: he was the same man who had been appearing to me for seven years before, from 1917 to 1924. I paid homage to him: "Why so late?"

He said, "That was the most opportune time that you are to come."

So this is how I met the Master. "The Guru appears when the chela is ready" – even to the most skeptical mind. Perhaps none of you have been so skeptical as I was. I was afraid, you see, lest I go to somebody who had not met God; and my life would be spoiled.

When I went to him, then – once or twice, every Sunday I used to go – he looked after me like a father looks after his son's coming: "All right, arrange this room, bring this bedding," this and that thing. I requested, "Well, Master, don't you worry, I'm here, at your feet."

"All right, now, you'll have to look after this Dera; go on with it. Those who come, you'll look after them." These were the words he expressed, the very first time.

The next time there was initiation – this was early February – and all were sitting in initiation, Master said, "You sit inside." I was coming. He gave initiation there; I was inside, sitting in his room. This is how I was initiated! I was waiting for him; perhaps he will call me – or what? I couldn't dare move, because he did not call me. I was sitting inside. Then he returned. I asked him, "Will you kindly initiate me?"

"Oh, yes, surely."

What the mystery of life is – what is a man, what is a soul – was solved in little or no time.

A qualification of a Master is given as one who can give you some experience. Some say, "All right, go here; here are maps to show you the way; go by this road; or turn right, then left," this or that. Sometimes you have to hunt for hours, and you do not find the way. But a Master is one who can give you some experience to start with, who can appear and remove the dark veil by giving a sitting; and you can testify that it is so. You are not to wait until after death or until after many years. He does not tell you, "All right, go on; you'll have it in due course." You'll find that it is so with most of the teachers: "All right, do some regular meditation; some reaction from the past might help you." But the competency of the Master lies in the fact that he is able and competent to give experience to the learned or the unlearned, to a man off the street.

It so happened that there was some controversy when our Master became a Master – I mean, took up the role of the Master. (He was a Master, but he took up the role of the Master.) When others asked, "Why, how can you become a Master?" he was very polite and very humble. He never liked to get into a controversy. After they kept pushing the point, he said, "All right. Catch some five or six people off the street, make them sit, and give them some experience. I will also catch some, and then we'll see who can carry it out!" That's all: to give the ultimate goal and what to do to reach it. So this is how I met the Master.

Generally, when people ask me, "What is your date of birth?" I tell them, "I have three birthdays: first, when I was born in the flesh; second, when I met Him inside seven years before; and third, when I met Him physically."

These are the gifts of God. I was very afraid because generally you'll find that Masters simply tell you, "Go on reading scriptures." That is right; that is the first step. But you cannot have the right import of the scriptures unless you meet Somebody who has that experience: He alone is able to give you an experience, to give you the right understanding and the right import of the scriptures. Because, what are scriptures? They are the fine records of the experiences that the Masters had in their lives. Then, perform one ritual or the other; that's all right for the preparation of the ground. But seeing is something else: it only arises when you analyze yourself, when you rise above body-consciousness and you testify that there is Light. A Master is also defined as one who can make the Music of the Spheres audible. Who can give you Light and Music of the Spheres? What are these two? These are two aspects of the God-into-expression power. God has no equal, no father, no mother – nothing of the sort. Only He Who is Word personified can give you the experience of that Power, the very first day. Even the blind man has that inner eye, called the single eye. Scriptures tell us, "If thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light. ... If you shut the doors of the temple of the body, you'll see the light of heaven." That is called the third eye, the single eye or the latent eye; or shiv netra; there are so many names for it.

These are the basic teachings that give you the ultimate contact with that Reality. Philosophies deal with theories. This is what is called mysticism: it gives you a contact with Reality – that Reality which came into expression. Psychology works at the level of the intellect. This does not work at the level of the intellect; it works only when you are intellectually stilled. In psychology and philosophy you have two: a subject and an object. And in mysticism, there is no duality: you have direct contact with the God-into-expression Power. The more you are unattached from outside, the more you have an ethical way of living, the more you come in contact with that Power; and, like an electric lift, it will take you to the place from where it emanated.

God came into expression from the wordless state as Light and Sound: "The Word was made flesh and dwelt amongst us." That Power which manifests in some human pole is called the God Power or the Master Power or the Guru Power. It is also referred to as the Christ Power: Christ lived before Jesus, mind that, and lives forever. This is what St. John said. But we only ruminate over the scriptures; we don't follow what is what. Once a man starts with the wrong thing, others follow him blindly. How many are there who can give you a first-hand experience? They may say, "All right, go on meditating"; and some may get an experience, but others may not. This is where the competency lies: because of the God in him, not the Son of man.

Someone asked our Master, "How should we address you?" He said, "Take me as your brother, as your father, as your friend, as your teacher. Just act up to what I say. When you rise above the body and you find Him inside, too, and there He is also competent to guide you, then you will call me by any name you like."

So all Masters say, "Take to the feet of such a person, in the human body, at whose pole the God Power works; who can guide you while in the body and also when you transcend the physical, astral and causal bodies. Take to the feet of such a Master." How many are there? There have been few in the past, and even now there are few. I wish there were hundreds and thousands; then there would be no conflict.

When my Master left the body, I had to go to the wilderness. I had some experience of the jungle and secluded places for five or six months. I went to (Rishikesh) the home of Hindu theology, so to say. Shivananda, who has since passed away, lived there, and many other yogis as well. I went there and lived in a jungle across the river. I met everybody. All were intellectual wrestlers; debating clubs; all performing this elementary step: how to say prayers, how to perform certain rites and certain rituals. And most of them were doing hatha yoga practices. Of course, with due deference to it, it makes the body fit – that's all right.

There was also one fellow, who is still alive, called Raghuvacharya. He's an old man now – I think 106 -107 years old – but he gets around like anything. When I went to see him, people said, "Oh, he never cares for anybody." When I was about more than 100 or 150 yards away, he appeared; he was sitting on his feet. He looked at me and he stood up. People said, "That's strange. He has never cared for any man, yet he stood up." He came forward and met me, and we had a talk. And in the talk it came out that he went to the first plane: to Sahasrara. I found only one man who had transcended the body and reached the first stage. He said that what he had learned by going through all the Shastras, Vedas and Upanishads, "I have come to know something which you speak by yourself!" [Raghuvacharya left the earth plane in 1971, at the age of 115.]

That is the grace of my Master. Masters give you a digest of all this knowledge, which is called para vidya. So I found only one man there. The world is not without them, but there have been very few in the past, and even now there are few. You'll find that most of them will give you only: "Read this mantra, this shabda, this scripture, daily." They'll simply perform this ritual in this way or perform that prayer by lighting a candle or ringing a bell – whatever is the custom. Everyone has his own rituals and rites. That is right; prayer is a very good thing: the prayer that gushes out of the heart, God hears, and He makes some arrangement to bring you to Him. And some people direct you to make your body fit. That's good; but that's not spirituality: that's a helping factor for spirituality. Some teach you how to prolong your life – that's all right. Some teach you how to mesmerize others, how to hypnotize others, how you can read the minds of others. But all this is not spirituality. How many are there who really give you an experience of how to rise above body-consciousness?

So this is the state of affairs. I wish there were hundreds and thousands of that category who see. If they see, then why don't they sit together? If all men know Him, there's no question of jealousy, no question of competition. They're made brothers; they embrace each other. The very fact that they don't want to meet each other shows they don't know Him. Each man is blowing his own pipe: "I am the highest." And what do they do? They simply ask us to "visualize this face." Naturally you will derive something for the time being, for there is some concentration there. But what do you become? "As you think, so you become." Is it not dangerous? Most dangerous. That is why I never advise visualization. If you visualize a right person, that's right. Otherwise your whole aim is spoiled. So this is what is going on in the world.

The first condition, I would say, of a Master, when he meets another Master, is that he will embrace him; he will rejoice. There's no question of high and low. There was one instance in my life in which my Master Baba Sawan Singh met one follower of Rai Saligram, named Shivbrat Lal. He was a very advanced soul. At the first meeting, when they met, I was there along with them. He was bowing down to my Master, and my Master was bowing down to him. They were embracing. Why should not those who are on the way embrace? Why should they not feel joy? The very fact that they do not want to meet together shows that they are blowing their own pipes – they have not seen God, I tell you.

I'm very frank sometimes, with due deference to all. When they've seen the same thing, where is high and low? I see the God in you, you see the God in me; that's all right.

So please go to somebody who can give you something. What other proof can there be? And it must be in a conscious state, not under mesmerism or hypnotism, mind that. Some say it is hypnotism; then all would have the same experience. Each man has his own inner conscious state. They see, they rise above the body, they see Light. Each man has his own experience.

This is what is the Truth – without any exaggeration. These are facts given by all Masters. I will now tell you one more event in my life. I was very fond of reading biographies, even as a student I think I read more than three hundred lives of saints, East and West. The first book that came into my hands while I was reading in the seventh class was a life of a Saint – Ramanuj. What did I read there? It was written that he went to a Master, who gave him initiation. Then Ramanuj came around, stood on a mound, and called all the people around him. People asked, "What are you going to do?"

"I've got something I'm going to give you."

"Oh, you are disobeying the orders of your Master." Without the permission of his Master, he should not have done it.

"Never mind. I will go to hell – you'll be saved! I'll suffer hell, for your sake. You'll be saved, after all; I don't mind."

At that time, it came to my mind, that if I get this thing, I'll give it out like anything. But fortunately, I've given it out at the order of my Master, not without it! And that is His grace working, I tell you. Never for a moment have I dreamed that I am doing it: it is He who is doing it. Some people ask me, "You have given the initiation; then why does your Master sometimes appear with you or all alone?" What should I reply? Tell me. I tell them, "It may be that He is in me." And that's all I can really tell them. Even to those who have not seen His physical form, that Form appears, without visualization. They have never seen Him. They recognize Him by showing them His photos.

This is the true state of affairs. This is common-sense talk: no inferences are being drawn; there is no intellectual wrestling. I wish all would sit together, embrace, and give out what they want. Why are so many formations going different ways, one leading one way, the other leading the other way? Let them sit together and digest and give out the higher thing. Why should they waste all their lives in performing only the elementary steps? Of course, each thing has its own value, and you may make the best use of what is required. But this is the highest thing. Lives are short; and this is how I got it, and how my Master ordered me to vouchsafe this to you, for you to carry on. Have a common ground for all. But all "Masters" don't say that. They say: "Carry on this very line." But Truth is not the reserved right of any religion, country or family, mind that. It is the reserved right of each man. Wherever that Power manifests, from there you can get it. But what do people do? If there is a Master, those in his household try to keep the Mastership in that very line. Excuse me, with due deference to all – they want to keep it in that very house and that very lineage and family; because it becomes a source of income, I tell you. Do you see?

So that is the result. The son may be equal to the father: it might not be, not necessarily. If it is there, well and good; that's the criterion. Wherever you find it, go there. Moths will go to where light is burning.

So this is the cause of what is going on in so many religions. They become only formations; formation results in stagnation; and stagnation results in deterioration.

Truth is one. Socrates was asked whether he loved Plato. He said, "I love Plato. But I love Truth more than Plato." Do you see? We are searching after Truth. Truth is like that: wherever Truth is, and you find it, go there. What did our Master tell us? "This is the Truth you have been given. If you find more than that anywhere, go and tell me: I will also go there." We are worshipers of Truth, not of personalities, or this or that thing. If you find Truth here or on the streetside or on the riverside or in any congested place, go there. You might find it in a cobbler. History shows that one Saint, Ravidas, was a cobbler. He used to mend shoes. And Mirabai, the princess, went to his feet. What did he do? He had a little cottage over there; naturally, he used to earn his money, and he lived on that. She left him one ruby and said, "Here is a ruby; just make your home sweetly."

"Oh, I don't want it," he said. She pressed it on him. "All right; put it anywhere you like."

She put it somewhere. After six months had passed, she came again. He was still only mending shoes. She said, "I left you a ruby."

"Oh, it might be there where you left it," he said.

Truth is one. The criterion of a Saint is that he's not after show. He does not live on the donations of others. He earns his livelihood; he stands on his own legs; and he helps others. He does not charge anything for his teachings. This is given in the Sikh scriptures. Otherwise that becomes a business.

This is the digest of what I found in scriptures, with due deference to all. I have respect for all, even for those who are that way. Because by love only can you turn somebody, not by hatred, not by criticism. If you sit together and love together, then naturally you'll understand each other. If you want to enforce on him: "You are right; you are wrong," nobody's going to listen to you. Truth is Truth.

This is how I got to my Master. Wherever that God Power works, we have respect for it. The son of man never asserts that "I am doing it"; he says, "God in me is doing it." He sees that. So, fortunate are those that meet such a Master; they are put on the way.

Then what duty is there further? The more you abide by His words, the better it is. I think that when you meet such a Master and live one hundred per cent according to His teachings, you cannot return to this world: you'll go to the highest possible. But we don't care; we don't live up to what He says. That is why Christ said, "God is Light, God is Life, and God is Love." This is known when you see Light, when you become conscious. And the way to that is Love. That is innate in us: God is Love and we are also love. For that reason, love is innate in everyone – in souls, in every soul. You'll find that the word "man" is called in Urdu insan. Insan is "one who is love personified": he must be overflowing with love and radiating love for all. That is but natural. That's the criterion of a Saint: that he is overflowing with love for all, even those who come to praise him and others who come to criticize him. He loves them. He is polite; he is loving; he does not impose anything on them, but simply puts forward something.

In the Mohammedan scriptures you'll find that it says, "For a man there must be somebody to love." Man cannot live without one whom to love. That love knows attachment. That love is not attached to ourselves, to the body, to children, to the family, to friends. This is what is called "misfit love." Wherever you are attached, you will come back and go there. And when it is directed to one's own Self and the Controlling Power controlling it, that is called "charity."

So, charity is the way back to God. All Masters say that. We love the world more than the "Word." That's all. Some people only pray to God and love God because He will give them worldly things. If He does not give those to them, they say, "Oh, where is God? He is sleeping!" That's what people say! So long as our purposes are served and met with, we say, "Oh, God is all right. He is very great." But, if somebody dies: "Oh, God is cruel – what is God?" If you think that it is all God's, then if He takes something away from you or gives something back to you, what is it to you? Love knows giving; love knows sacrifice: not the sacrifice of others, but of your own self – for the sake of service of God. The more you love, the more you will surrender. Surrender is called devotion.

When you surrender to somebody, he will sacrifice everything for you. So, surrender is the gift of yourself. That is why all Masters say: "Leave all and follow me." We cannot surrender. You will find people who surrender their body; you will also find people who can surrender their wealth. But how many are there who can surrender their minds? Do you see? Guru Arjan said, "Surrender your body, surrender everything – all your possessions, your mind, your soul: then you are with God."

These are the things that are generally required. This is common-sense talk. You have to love because it is innate in you. Don't misfit it. If you love others for the sake of their souls and the God in them, that's all right: that won't give you any attachment. But if you love them for their bodies' sake, it will.

Yesterday a lady telephoned me here and said, "My son is dead. I love him so. I want to meet him. Can I meet him?"

I told her, "Why do you want to meet him? He has joined you in life as a son (or a daughter or anything) – reactions of the past are to be wound up and all give and take completed – and he has gone his own way."

"No," she said. "I want to meet him. I'll do everything that you say."

"All right," I answered. "If you go there, and if he is not reincarnated, then you might find him. But you'll also find that your spirituality is gone. You have been initiated. I must be frank," I told her.

So, after a few minutes, she came around: "I am doing wrong."

"You can help him – that's all – by your prayer. Have best wishes for him, pray for him – that's all right." Things are very clear, but we have on our smoky glasses.

(Bibi Hardevi sings one of Master's songs – a prayer to His Master Baba Sawan Singh. The following is Master's description of the contents of the prayer and His discourse on it.)

When we take the first step of joining any religion, we go to churches and to the holy places of worship where the ministers of those churches tell us to repeat the scriptures from day to day. They give us the same story: there is God; there is Son of God; you can meet Him through the Son of man; God is within you: "The Kingdom of God is within you." These teachings are only meant to develop love and devotion within us to know God. By hearing them, a strong desire to know God is developed. And then, those who by reading scriptures and hearing daily lectures have gained that strong desire in them to see God, say, "O ministers, stop all the reading of these scriptures to me now. Tell me how to see Him. The wish to know God has been developed in me; that's an earnest desire. I don't like your preachings anymore; now tell me how to know God, how to see God. All through life we've been hearing these long yarns: "God is there; God is within you. You have joined this religion; remain in this religion." O minister, what are you doing? You are after keeping your formations intact; no one should leave them. And I am after finding God. Religions have to do with my body. If He is within me and beyond all senses, then tell me how to know Him, how to see Him." That's the earnest desire of any lover of God.

Question: Maharaj Ji, but when you ask a minister how to find God, his normal answer would be, if you read the scriptures and if you live right, after you die, then Christ will show you the Kingdom of God.

Master: That's all right. Religions only promise experience of God after death, not in life. But mysticism promises it in life – and Masters – never after death. If you want to live on credit, it is your own choice. For everything in the world you want cash. If, in the case of this life-and-death problem, you would like to wait till after death, it is up to you.

Then the natural question arises: "If you are yearning and pining to see God so much, why don't you die in that separation?" You have perhaps heard about Lord Rama. His wife Sita was abducted by a king named Ravana. She was under his arrest for many years. Lord Rama first wanted to find a clue whether Sita was there or not. Hanuman, the Monkey King, went there and found that she was there. When he came back he brought the clue to Lord Rama: "Sita is there, alive."

Then Rama asked him, "Why did she not die? She said that if she were separated from me, she would die. Why is she alive?"

You see, strong yearning means that: a fish cannot live without water. People say this; but, really, it's not so.

Then what did he reply? "The soul of Sita left the body, but is waiting in the eyes. Why? Because, if the angel of death comes, he will not find her in the body; but she's waiting in the eyes to see you." So strong a yearning is the natural feat of love.

All Masters, whenever they came, said the same thing. The tenth Guru of the Sikhs said, "Hear ye all; I tell you the truth. Irrespective of whether you belong to one religion or the other, that makes no difference: through love alone you can know God." All others also said the same thing: "Those who do not know love, cannot know God." Christ said, "If ye love me, keep my commandments." What did he say? "I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you forever; even the Spirit of Truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you again."

If two men, four men, love the same man, that is a point for consideration. True love is where there is no question of competition. When there are two lovers of the same Master, they compete: one says, "I should be in front," and the other says, "I should be in front." But love knows no duality, no competition, no anger, and no coming-to-the-front.

Just judge your love for the Master. Why does all this conflict remain among the followers? Because they have not got real love, I tell you. If they've got real love, love knows no competition. Each one will be happy the more he can put his shoulders to the wheel for the same Cause. Christ said further: "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. Peace I leave with you, my peace will remain with you forever."

So, as I told you, love knows no competition. When two followers of the same Master do not agree, one says, "I am in the forefront," and the other says, "I am in the forefront." What is the result? To me, apparently such a follower has no love for the Master – true love. He has love for the Master for selfish motives: he wants to come near to him, to the forefront of him. So, love is the remedy for all things: "Love and all things shall be added unto you." That's the pity: we don't love.

And then Christ said, "As the Father hath loved me, so I have loved you: continue ye in my love. If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I kept my Father's commandments, and I abide in His love." He loved his Master, his God. He said, "I give you a new commandment: love one another." There we are wanting, I tell you. I have been pressing this point very much, ever since I've come. This is the only remedy for all our ills. If one man goes ahead, it is His grace.

In the beginning I used to put in more time. I was transferred to Rawalpindi. The first day I was there, everybody knew it: "A follower of the Master!" They were saying this and that thing. That even came to be known to Bibi Hardevi, who is sitting here. She never knew me before that. People said, "Well, he's here; he's a very great follower of the Master." She said, "What greatness lies in him?" "He puts in six hours a day in meditation." She said, "All right, if he puts that in, then I'll put in six – seven hours – and then I'll meet him."

Suchlike competition is good. You see, we want to eclipse others: we want to eclipse others by placing ourselves in the front. So she did not come to see me, I tell you, [laughing] for months on end. When she put in six or seven hours a day, then she, along with her husband, came to see me. And only when? When my son died.

I was quite jolly, and the doctor came in the night. He gave my son this and that thing. I told him, "All right, give him whatever you wish. He has to go; let him finish his give and take." At about midnight, he took the breath of death: he had a long period of vomiting and became cold. I had sent for the doctor, and when he came he said, "I'll give him some medicine and he'll be all right." But in the morning, my son was quite ready to go. The doctor said, "Oh, he now looks better all of a sudden." I said, "Wait outside; he's just going." So I looked at him, and he passed away.

At that time, everyone came to see me. I'm relating this to show how this family [Taiji and her husband] came in contact with me. She and her husband also met me, and they were wonderstruck: "Your son has died, and you're quite jolly. It is not usual not to worry and to be like that." A lot of people came to visit, and they said somebody in the Sikh temple had said that "here's a true Sikh coming up. He is a credit to our religion." And her husband heard about it and thought: "He must be a follower of my Master." He never knew me before. He went and inquired about it, and it was so. He told them, "Look here, he's my brother, who has been going and sitting at the feet of my Master." So they came to pay me their condolences. And they were wonderstruck. What did I do? I gave them tea, and this and that thing. So, suchlike competition is good.

Now, what one man does, others reflect on it. Put your shoulders to the wheel. The more one progresses, the better. Why are there all these conflicts? Because we do not love the Master, truly speaking. If anybody has become the beloved of the Master, it is good; you should also become the beloved. See how the other one has become the beloved: "Why does the Master love him? There must be a reason for it." Suchlike love knows no competition, no saying, "Why has the other man gone forward?" Quietly and unknowingly, they are going on doing it. They won't show what they are doing; they'll go on and let others see for themselves.

These are the things that are required. Christ said, "Love one another as I loved you. Greater love hath no man than this, that a man may lay down his life" – love knows service and sacrifice – "for his friends." What did Christ say? Do you know? "Ye are my friends." He did not want to make us slaves: Masters never make you a slave. The beauty of our Master was that he addressed us very respectfully – very lovingly. A Master never makes slaves of you; he makes you friends. And why? "... if you do whatsoever I command you. Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what the lord doeth: but I have called you my friends; for all things I have known of my Father, I have made known to you."

Do you follow? There are some so-called Masters, I tell you, who treat others like their slaves – bought slaves – they make the best use of them. And I tell you, Master's conditions are very strong. Anyone who wants to take the service of his other disciple-mates, without the permission of the Master, Master turns away his face from him. We consider it jolly: "Oh, everybody now loves me; he serves me; he gives me sacrifices; he gives me so many boons and donations." We shouldn't.

Whenever you have to compare, make the comparison that if one man does more, you will do still more. If he does, say, four hours of meditation, you put in five hours. That's a good competition, is it not? But that we do not do; that is a pity. And this is the basic cause of all conflicts, of all differences of opinion. Formations are made when we are wanting in love, I tell you honestly.

Question : Maharaj Ji, why don't you interpret the song that Madame Hardevi sang?

Master: I gave you the gist of that. It went: They cry, "O minister, you have been repeating all the scriptures to me for ages; now tell me how to find Him! where to find Him! Yes, where to find Him, how to find Him! I know I have to find Him, but I do not know where and how. Religions all tell us that. But they do not tell us where to find Him and how to find Him. Those who are ministers are after keeping their religions intact and letting nobody run away out of them. They say, "Don't go to hear about any other religion, for if you do, you won't remain a Christian or a Hindu or a Mohammedan." They are after that; and the lovers say: "How can I find God?" All lovers are one. We are to join the army of God, mind that; but ministers keep you stuck fast in your dungeons, in watertight compartments: "You are not to run away from this one; not to attend others; if you hear that, it will be a sin." What are all these things? These appear to be ridiculous, is it not so?" That's it.

So, formations result in stagnation. Religions go on so long as awakened men are there. Among those who are not awakened, they become strongholds. One religion begins to hate the other. And the stagnation takes this form: "In this way only you are acceptable to God." But we have to see with what love you perform one ritual or the other. That love counts, not the ritual or how you perform it. And naturally, stagnation results in deterioration; that's the cause of all these conflicts. They are spending thousands and millions of dollars for the upkeep of their own formations. They have been ready to kill hundreds and thousands of men for this sake in religious wars. But they would not like to serve those hungry gods moving on earth. I am giving you only a common-sense talk.

Comment: There will be no interviews this evening. Master has been giving out since after nine this morning.

No interviews? Do you want any more interviews after 10:15? Well, if there is anybody, he is welcome; I have no objection whatsoever ... Who are they? Yes, they are welcome. ... All right, let them make the best use of me.