Television Interview of Sant Kirpal Singh, Mexico City, 11 December, 1972, at 11:00 a.m.

 

Question: Master, we would like to ask you if you are in accordance with the opinion of Pope Paul . . .

Sant Kirpal Singh: What is his opinion?

Question: . . . that the devil is the cause of all the ills and badness in the world?

Sant Kirpal Singh: The truth remains that God made the universe. He (God) has two sides: one, going into expression – the other receding back. So the word "Brahm" is used there (in India) for "to go into expression". This (Brahm) is the cause of all expression of the universe. And the other power is called "Positive". This Brahm is called "Negative". The other power is positive which brings back souls to God. This is not the end-all. So the power going into expression is called by some as "Satan" or "Devil"; that power is called amongst the Rishis as "Brahm".

These are two powers made by God: One of creation, the other receding back. Like electricity: somewhere it burns like fire . . .  and somewhere it congeals water into ice.

The power of God is the same (power), but it has two expressions: one, going into expression, the other, receding back. Had there been no power going into expression, called "Brahm" (or Satan), there would have been no world whatsoever.

That Brahm has got a law: "As you sow, so shall you reap." So that Brahm power is very just. The incarnations ("Avatars") of that Brahm power, when they come into the world, their job is to punish the wicked, uphold the righteous and set the world agoing.

Generally this matter is only hinted at, I tell you. Just now I will give you an example. A king is appointing an authority as a commander-in-chief. He is also appointing an authority of the viceroy (or royal governor). The two authorities work for the sake of the king. It is the king who has given them that power. But their work is different. The commander-in-chief orders, "All right, go . . . !"

When a city is in trouble, the civil officers hand over the town to the military. What do they do? They punish the wicked, fire (on) and kill somebody, save the honor of the righteous, and when it is in order, they hand it over to the civil (authorities). This is not the end-all.

Questioner: Well, she wants to go on to the next question, but we only have . . .

Sant Kirpal Singh: No. This is not ended. He (the commander-in-chief) says "I order!" That’s right. But still there is something further to be explained, in a few words more. If you want half of the reply, well it is up to you.

Questioner: No, no. Please finish.

Sant Kirpal Singh: What I say should not be half of a reply. This (reply) will go to the world for a decision, you see, and now we have this good fortune.

Yes, the commander-in-chief knows fully well that he is empowered by the king to destroy, kill, et cetera. But the viceroy never says things like that. The viceroy says, "I convey to you the orders of the king".

There are incarnations of the positive power (the "true Masters") who say like that (the viceroy). They are the Saints. Those (incarnations or avatars) who come like the commander-in-chief and others, they say, "I order, fire!" It is a different expression (of authority), although both powers (positive and negative) know at heart that they have got this power from God; this is done only to have the world into expression. Otherwise, there would have been no world. And so our actions bring on this thing: all of the troubles coming up, and this and that thing. And the incarnations of the positive power, or the (true) Saints, they look after the souls to go back to God.

And the world never ends: it goes on – changing – from "Kali", the Iron Age, to the Golden Age.

So, mind is the negative power working in each man, within each man.

And its (mind’s) work is always to keep you away from God – to keep you (soul) engaged in the world. So, naturally, punishment is there: killing is there, wars are there and these (punishments) alter. Sometimes plagues are there. Ant the righteous people come up.

Now the Golden Age arises from the Iron Age: that (Golden Age) won’t fall down from heaven all at once. So spiritual awakening is there – in the East and West, both. People are for that: they are fed up with all these things (materialism, punishments) and they want some way out. And also the other way, (positive power) work is going on.

The negative power does not spare the incarnations of the negative power. The negative power also punishes them (the avatars). I will give you an instance: Rama killed the brother of Ravan. Then Rama came in the incarnation of Lord Krishna. And that man who was killed, he came as a dacoit (bandit) in the wilderness and he killed Krishna. Then he came to Krishna (as Krishna lay dying) and said, "I have done wrong". Lord Krishna replied, "No, no, I killed you before". So, the negative power does not spare his incarnations.

So, the day of judgement is also individual, and also as a whole, as a class.

Comment: It (the day of judgement) has two aspects.

Sant Kirpal Singh: So (similarly) the other (positive) work. I tell you the world is never ended: it is changing for individuals and all together. And the Rishis also showed four billion trillions (of years) yet to come before the end. But it is not going to end, just be changed for the better.

Two or three years back, somebody wrote me from America that: America will be under water and people will be running to the hills. What is your opinion?

I told him, "No such (limited) thing will happen. Don’t worry. If it comes, it will be for all (the world over) . . . if anything happens".

So, mark my words: the day of judgement is for each individual and as a class (of people) also. (For instance) that Vietnam War is going on. And other things are going on.

Question: One thing we would like to know very much, Master, is: What can one understand . . .  what is the meaning of "Science of the soul"?

Sant Kirpal Singh: Science of the soul is God’s work. We are souls under the control of the negative power. The incarnation of the positive power comes to save them and bring them back to God.

The other day, in my talk, I said there should be no revolution of the body: not of the body, but (rather) of the evil propensities of the mind which takes men away from God. There should be a spiritual revelation and that is going on. I have replied to this question (concerning the science of the soul) in my talk on the day before yesterday, concerning the open revelation everybody is getting now: first-hand experience (of the inner Light and voice of God), to be saved . . . at large . . .

So (spiritual) awakening is going on all around: in the East and in the West. That means the Golden Age is arising from the Iron Age. And the science of the soul is for that.

What further? Fourth question? That (God) Power is working to reply to the fourth question as well.

All right. Thank you. That is what I know, with God’s grace going on.

Comment (afterwards): He (the television program manager) says he is very sorry that we have so little (broadcast) time; that you have so much that you could teach us and give us. We would love to have a very long interview, but they come with a small . . .

Sant Kirpal Singh: Well, it (this world) is to punish those who are wicked; it is a reformatory, you see. I told in my talk the other day that a spiritual revolution is going on now. And it is not a revolution against the bodies, but against the evil propensities of the mind. Mind is a slave of the negative power. Had there been no negative power, there would have been no world whatsoever.